Guardians Of The Flame Podcast

Assaad Chaftari: From the Militia to Fighting For Peace

I have had the privilege of meeting Assaad Chaftari a few times now. He is a gentle man, a man of peace, a man of forgiveness who nevertheless witnessed and indeed played an active part in the horror of the Lebanese civil war. Assaad was a senior intelligence officer in the Christian militia called the “Lebanese Forces” and was responsible for the deaths of many.

Assaad’s life changed through being introduced to the work of “Initiatives of Change” and as he began to turn his back on the sectarianism of the Civil War and embrace Reconciliation. In 2000 he came to prominence by printing a letter of apology in all of the Lebanese national newspapers. He apologised for what he had done, to those who he had killed and to their families and he offered forgiveness to those who had tried to kill him. Assaad has said “I would venture into the jaws of hell if my story could shift just one person's views and move them away from violence.”

This is the first of our podcasts where we look at Lebanon and the tragedy of that country but also the beauty of those like Assaad who seek to pursue peace in the face of the devastation of war. Assaad is a member of a peace group called “Fighters for Peace” which brings together former enemies from the Lebanese Civil War and uses their stories to change hearts in the Lebanon of today.

In this podcast we don’t discuss the current events of political change and unrest in the country. We focus more on the universal themes of peace and reconciliation that have been out worked through Assaad’s life. This is one of our most important podcasts I think we have released because it deals with such first hand experience of war.

Muhammad Al-Hussaini: A higher quality of disagreement.

Sheikh Dr Muhammad Al-Hussaini came to the attention of many when in 2015 he chose to defend in court the Pentecostal pastor Rev Jim McConnell from Whitewell Metropolitan Tabernacle, Belfast’s biggest church. McConnell had preached a sermon where he categorised Islam as “heathen” and “satanic” and a “doctrine spawned in hell”. Yet Muhammad defended the pastor and developed a friendship with him. In court he defended McConnell’s right to free-speech. Muhammad is a Muslim from London with not only a love for Irish folk music but a commitment to building relationships of peace with Christians and Jews and those of other faiths from his own. Over the years he has visited Rostrevor a number of times and has become a strong friend of ours.

One of Muhammad’s firm convictions is that we should not seek a bland peace between faiths. Rather we should be able to rigorously debate and defend our differences in a way that does not demonise but builds understanding through authentic dialogue. He calls this a “higher quality of disagreement”. This phrase has become one of the key back bones to a series of events at the centre Jonny leads called An Cuan. These events have been convened by Tommy Sands, Jonny Clark and www.artsawonder.com a local community arts and reconciliation initiative.

Peter Adams: Spaces of Grace in a Divided City

Peter Adams is a remarkable and courageous man of peace. He plays a crucial role in building community relations and sustaining genuine peace through dialogue and relationships in a very fractured context. Luton, on the northern edge of London is where Peter works and has been known as a place where both the far right English Defence League emerged, and a small group of extremist Muslims operated. Peter is one of a number of amazing faith leaders from both the Christian and Muslim communities who are leading the way in building bridges in their community. Peter has been awarded the Outstanding Citizen award by the mayor among other commendations. His whole work can be summed up as “creating a space of grace”. Follow Peter on @pgmadams or @stmaryspeace and his blog is reconciliationtalk.org/

David Archambault: Standing Rock Reservation, the Dakota Access Pipeline.

During the protests over the Dakota Access Pipeline, David Archambault was the leader of the Standing Rock nation. As the tribal Chairman he had the challenging role of negotiating with the oil executives, politics, Barack Obama, activists and his ow people. David articulated the reality of historic trauma of his people, and the 40% poverty rate among Native people. He spoke about his father's experience of boarding schools, where kids as young as 4 would be forcibly removed from their parents and placed in schools where it was attempted to 'kill the Indian, save the man'. David is a peaceable, humble man. The Native American understanding of the interconnectedness of all of the environment was beautiful. In the face of growing inequality that is manifesting in a deepening climate crisis, humanity will do well to be lead by a way of life exemplified by the indigenous populations of North America. 

Tommy Sands

Tommy Sands is one of Ireland’s most well known folk singers. He has played both with some of the biggest names in music around the world and has also spent time teaching prisoners to write songs. Tommy is also a peace activist and has been an important voice for reconciliation in Northern Ireland since the 1970’s. Many of his songs are calls for peace, like “There were Roses”, and the song he wrote with Pete Seeger “The Music of Healing”. Tommy and his wife and I and a small collective in our village have also been involved in the last 5 years in pursuing a “higher quality of disagreement” among religious leaders and political leaders in Ireland. Tommy has a voice of kindness and magnanimity, but one that is also passionate to include those who are left out in society.

It’s a privilege to interview him for this podcast, the video of which can also be watched on our Guardians Of The Flame YouTube channel. Tommy’s book and music can be ordered through his website tommysands.com including his brilliant latest cd “Fair Play To You All”.

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We’re grateful for all of your support through Patreon and by rating or reviewing these podcasts on iTunes or wherever you listen to them. We’re also hugely grateful to the Community Relations Council of Northern Ireland for their support of this season of podcasts.

Stephen Travers

Stephen Travers is an inspiring figure who was one of two survivors of the Miami Showband Massacre. The story of the bombing of his band was recently featured in the Netflix series “ReMastered”. Today Stephen is a passionate voice for reconciliation and also for the truth about historic injustices to be made known. The Miami Showband were one of the biggest of Ireland’s showbands in the mid 70’s. They regularly attracted crowds into the thousands. On 31st July 1975 the infamous Glenanne Gang gunned down three of the band’s members after a bomb the gang was attempting to plant on the band’s bus exploded prematurely. Stephen founded the Truth and Reconciliation Platform (TARP) with Eugene Reavey who is featured in our Guardians Of The Flame documentary.

Cathleen Falsani

Cathleen Falsani is an American journalist and author. She specializes in the intersection of religion/spirituality/faith and culture, and has been a staff writer for the Chicago Sun Times, The Chicago Tribune, Sojourners Magazine, and Religion News Service. Cathleen also writes for U2.com. She was the 2005 Religion Writer of the Year, as awarded by the Religion Newswriters Association, and has twice been a finalist for the Templeton Religion Reporter of the Year award. Just before Christmas, Cathleen and Jarrod McKenna and I walked the 200 mile Irish border marking the looming spectre of Brexit and this polarised moment with a pilgrimage of prayer and reconciliation. Cathleen has Irish roots and has travelled here many times. Our conversation traversed the themes of her recent pilgrimage zig-zagging across the Irish border, the current state of this divided world, a past interview with Barack Obama and what we can learn from U2. This is a really interesting and topical conversation and was one of the easiest interviews I’ve ever done. Cathleen is a natural communicator and speaks with wisdom and tenderness. We also spoke about her most recent book The End Of Hunger.

Jason Miller

This is a fascinating, must-listen conversation with Jason Miller, pastor of a growing church in Indiana, USA called South Bend City Church. Our conversation traverses theological themes regarding how we read the Bible, to Jason’s passion for peacemaking that has emerged from his experiences in the Middle East and Sri Lanka. We also mention the now famous son of South Bend, it’s mayor and current Presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg. Also joining us for this episode is Dave Armstrong from Redeemer Central Church in Belfast.

Borderlands: Christmas Special

Jonny and Jenn Clark and their friends Dave and Jill Hines run a monthly event in Belfast called Borderlands. Held in a pub it is a space where faith and doubt meet, where songs and stories become sacred liturgies and where a spiritual home is created outside the walls of traditional churches. It is for Protestants and Catholics, for those with faith and those searching and unsure what they believe. This episode includes an interview with Alan McBride who is an activist for peace and reconciliation, and whose wife was killed in the 1993 Shankill Road bomb. It also includes stories from Paul Hutchinson, a well known poet and story-teller and former centre director of the Corrymeela community. Jenn Clark shares a reflection on the Advent theme of waiting, and there are two beautiful old songs that are heard in homes up and down the country at this time of year. This is heart warming, soul stirring stories and reflections that will give you hope this Christmas. It was recorded on the 11th December, the day before the UK elections.

Lisa Sharon Harper

It was a privilege to conduct this interview along with my wife Jenn, with Lisa Sharon Harper. From Ferguson to New York to Germany and South Africa, Lisa Sharon Harper leads trainings and helps mobilize clergy and community leaders around shared values for the common good. A prolific speaker, writer and activist, Ms. Harper is the founder and president of FreedomRoad.us and author of several books including “The Very Good Gospel”. Walter Brueggemann said that Lisa witnesses “to a saving transformative, reconciling faith that is indeed “very good”.” In 2015 The Huffington Post recognized her as one of “50 Powerful Women Religious Leaders to Celebrate on International Women’s Day.” Most recently, Relevant Magazine recognized The Very Good Gospel as one of “Six Books that Will Change the Way You See the World” and Ms. Harper as one of “Seven Leaders to Follow in 2017. As well as looking at the context of America and racism, she speaks candidly about her journey to find her Irish roots...